Vividcon 2003 -- Vidpairs show.
Aug. 24th, 2003 11:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
wickedwordsWow, did this get
I volunteered to sit door for this show, because I thought it would be interesting and I figured not a lot of people would go. From what I had heard muttered around before the panel, this was probably the most feared show that was presented, at least from the vidders as viewers perspective. (The premiers' show is the most anxiety producing show from the vidders as vidders perspective, at least IMO.) I heard a lot of people express different reasons for not going to it, but my rant is about how it was the most transgressive of the panels because it violated one of the old time vidding laws: thou shalt not vid a song that someone else has vided.
(The theory here is that there is only one chance for someone to see a vid for the first time, and that if the viewer has already been exposed to the song, they are forever spoiled. The next vid with that song will have something to compete with, and there's never a chance for that 'first time' again. And even if a song hasn't been vidded before, if it's received too much airplay, the audience is spoiled again. Only a virgin audience can truly appreciate a good vid.)
As you can tell, that's not one of my favorite beliefs. My own fannish belief system says that authenticity is what is important, and as long as a vidder can take a song and make it authentic to the characters and the fandom of their choice, that's baseline for me. I want vids with emotion, and I want them to feel authentic. It's the same sort of line I draw with fan fiction. I want it true to the characters and the universe that they are in.
Now, I'm not saying that 9 versions of evanescence's 'Bring me to Life' is a good thing, but I am saying I don't think pop is the devil either. I also know that if I vidded a cool song and someone else vidded the exact same song in the same Fandom and both showed for the first time at the same con, I would be really, really bummed. Possibly bordering psycho-bummed, if I think about it. But that's something that's going to happen now and again, and all you can do is try to be gracious. We are a much larger community than we once were, with wide musical tastes Just choose songs with care, and understand that some songs will apply to multiple fandoms and be perfect for each.
(As an FYI, the vid pairs show was supposed to be discussed as a part of the song choice panel, but song choice went a different way.)
But that virginal audience thing wasn't the only issue that kept people away, though. That's just my issue of the moment. This show stirred up a lot of old, old, *old* agendas, and some people didn't come because of what had happened in the past. Also, I heard a few people talk about how they can't listen to a song they don't really care twice in a row, so those people stayed away as well.
Plus it was the first show on Saturday. It was tough getting up after Club Vivid. *g*
But for those that came, they were treated to an interesting show:
Something to Talk About by Low Down Father Fooler (CaliCrew), Scarecrow & Mrs. King
Something to Talk About by Carol S (Woad Society), Stargate
I have seen, oh, maybe 7 different vids to this song, and worked on at least one version, all of them slash, so it was interesting to see what was done with it for het. Carols was really funny if you'd seen the 7 or so slash vids that I had; the set up was exactly the same.
True Believer by Melissa (Chicago Loop), XFiles
True Believer by Nicole (Media Cannibals), Blake's 7
For me personally, I have a strong prejudice toward the Blake's 7 version of the song, but I can see exactly why the Xfiles vidder chose it for Scully. There are some unfortunate images choices for a few of the lyrics lines-- such as the shot of Scully looking at the xray on the line 'I'll get what I deserve', thereby implying that Scully thinks she deserves cancer for following Mulder -- that I feel undercut the story she was trying to tell, but the song itself is a good choice for the Mulder/Scully relationship.
Don't Put It in Your Mouth by DeeJay, Sandy and rache (Piddley Assed Productions, Professionals
Don't Put It in Your Mouth by Snoo (Chicago Loop), Due South
The pros vid was the one that Sandy and I learned to vid on. For years, I have felt that it was vastly inferior to the DS as the DS one is the fannish fit. (As an FYI, our pros one came out first, long before Due South was a twinkle in anyone's eye.) In a way, I was relieved to see them played together. I could see that both vids were funny, and that each had their own strengths and weaknesses. I liked that Cowley figured so prominently in the Pros version, providing a 'voice' and a frame -- a context -- for the lyrics being said. There wasn't quite as clear a voice in the Due South version, but it definitely had more variety in what *not* to put in your mouth.
Losing My Religion by Kandy Fong, S&H
Losing My Religion by Katherine (Media Cannibals) Homicide:LoTS
This was fascinating, as both vids were about Cops losing their badges. I'm afraid that I don't remember S&H enough to have the context down, but it told an interesting story anyway. The really fascinating thing for me, was how occasionally there were similar types of shots -- things like focusing on the badge at one particular lyric line -- but not so many that they seemed too similar. More like an occasional emotional echo, which heightened the sense of jeopardy based on what had happened 'before'.
In Your Eyes by Killa & Carol S (Woad Society), HL
In Your Eyes by Lynn C, Stargate
This is the song that I was talking about as being perfect for two different fandoms. There are two big threads that run through the song besides 'eyes': stars and forever. For Stargate, the stars are literal and the forever metaphorical. For Highlander, the stars are metaphorical and the forever literal. They were both made by master class vidders, and there is no way I would give up one or the other. I admit that seeing them together like this brought back a lot of the memory of the kerfluffle over the vids both premiering at the same Escapade. I felt such empathy for the vidders -- remember what I said about maybe getting a little psycho-bummed if that happed to me? -- and was I thrilled that they let their vids be seen together like this. They are both excellent vids.
Busted by Killa & Bone (Woad Society), Hard Core Logo
Busted by Katherine & Merry Lynne (Media Cannibals), Smallville
I think Busted is perfect for HCL, so I was a harder sell when the Smallville one came out. But looking on it with fresh eyes, I can see that Busted really works for Lex as well. That led to me thinking about the ways in which Joe Dick and Lex could be seen as similar, and what sorts of parallels they might have.
At that point, we ran out of time. I would have loved to see the Blake's 7 and Farscape versions of comedy tonight back to back; they have different versions of the same song (for B7, it's the old Zero Mostel version and for FS, it's the more modern Nathan Lane), and I wanted to see what had been done with them. My gut feeling is that they would be similar in an interesting fashion, as the shows were similar in interesting ways, and comparison/contrast is really one of my kinks.
I think that's it for my con reports. I'm really behind in working on my fiction, and I promised A that I would try to get a Pirates story done before the end of September.
I volunteered to sit door for this show, because I thought it would be interesting and I figured not a lot of people would go. From what I had heard muttered around before the panel, this was probably the most feared show that was presented, at least from the vidders as viewers perspective. (The premiers' show is the most anxiety producing show from the vidders as vidders perspective, at least IMO.) I heard a lot of people express different reasons for not going to it, but my rant is about how it was the most transgressive of the panels because it violated one of the old time vidding laws: thou shalt not vid a song that someone else has vided.
(The theory here is that there is only one chance for someone to see a vid for the first time, and that if the viewer has already been exposed to the song, they are forever spoiled. The next vid with that song will have something to compete with, and there's never a chance for that 'first time' again. And even if a song hasn't been vidded before, if it's received too much airplay, the audience is spoiled again. Only a virgin audience can truly appreciate a good vid.)
As you can tell, that's not one of my favorite beliefs. My own fannish belief system says that authenticity is what is important, and as long as a vidder can take a song and make it authentic to the characters and the fandom of their choice, that's baseline for me. I want vids with emotion, and I want them to feel authentic. It's the same sort of line I draw with fan fiction. I want it true to the characters and the universe that they are in.
Now, I'm not saying that 9 versions of evanescence's 'Bring me to Life' is a good thing, but I am saying I don't think pop is the devil either. I also know that if I vidded a cool song and someone else vidded the exact same song in the same Fandom and both showed for the first time at the same con, I would be really, really bummed. Possibly bordering psycho-bummed, if I think about it. But that's something that's going to happen now and again, and all you can do is try to be gracious. We are a much larger community than we once were, with wide musical tastes Just choose songs with care, and understand that some songs will apply to multiple fandoms and be perfect for each.
(As an FYI, the vid pairs show was supposed to be discussed as a part of the song choice panel, but song choice went a different way.)
But that virginal audience thing wasn't the only issue that kept people away, though. That's just my issue of the moment. This show stirred up a lot of old, old, *old* agendas, and some people didn't come because of what had happened in the past. Also, I heard a few people talk about how they can't listen to a song they don't really care twice in a row, so those people stayed away as well.
Plus it was the first show on Saturday. It was tough getting up after Club Vivid. *g*
But for those that came, they were treated to an interesting show:
Something to Talk About by Low Down Father Fooler (CaliCrew), Scarecrow & Mrs. King
Something to Talk About by Carol S (Woad Society), Stargate
I have seen, oh, maybe 7 different vids to this song, and worked on at least one version, all of them slash, so it was interesting to see what was done with it for het. Carols was really funny if you'd seen the 7 or so slash vids that I had; the set up was exactly the same.
True Believer by Melissa (Chicago Loop), XFiles
True Believer by Nicole (Media Cannibals), Blake's 7
For me personally, I have a strong prejudice toward the Blake's 7 version of the song, but I can see exactly why the Xfiles vidder chose it for Scully. There are some unfortunate images choices for a few of the lyrics lines-- such as the shot of Scully looking at the xray on the line 'I'll get what I deserve', thereby implying that Scully thinks she deserves cancer for following Mulder -- that I feel undercut the story she was trying to tell, but the song itself is a good choice for the Mulder/Scully relationship.
Don't Put It in Your Mouth by DeeJay, Sandy and rache (Piddley Assed Productions, Professionals
Don't Put It in Your Mouth by Snoo (Chicago Loop), Due South
The pros vid was the one that Sandy and I learned to vid on. For years, I have felt that it was vastly inferior to the DS as the DS one is the fannish fit. (As an FYI, our pros one came out first, long before Due South was a twinkle in anyone's eye.) In a way, I was relieved to see them played together. I could see that both vids were funny, and that each had their own strengths and weaknesses. I liked that Cowley figured so prominently in the Pros version, providing a 'voice' and a frame -- a context -- for the lyrics being said. There wasn't quite as clear a voice in the Due South version, but it definitely had more variety in what *not* to put in your mouth.
Losing My Religion by Kandy Fong, S&H
Losing My Religion by Katherine (Media Cannibals) Homicide:LoTS
This was fascinating, as both vids were about Cops losing their badges. I'm afraid that I don't remember S&H enough to have the context down, but it told an interesting story anyway. The really fascinating thing for me, was how occasionally there were similar types of shots -- things like focusing on the badge at one particular lyric line -- but not so many that they seemed too similar. More like an occasional emotional echo, which heightened the sense of jeopardy based on what had happened 'before'.
In Your Eyes by Killa & Carol S (Woad Society), HL
In Your Eyes by Lynn C, Stargate
This is the song that I was talking about as being perfect for two different fandoms. There are two big threads that run through the song besides 'eyes': stars and forever. For Stargate, the stars are literal and the forever metaphorical. For Highlander, the stars are metaphorical and the forever literal. They were both made by master class vidders, and there is no way I would give up one or the other. I admit that seeing them together like this brought back a lot of the memory of the kerfluffle over the vids both premiering at the same Escapade. I felt such empathy for the vidders -- remember what I said about maybe getting a little psycho-bummed if that happed to me? -- and was I thrilled that they let their vids be seen together like this. They are both excellent vids.
Busted by Killa & Bone (Woad Society), Hard Core Logo
Busted by Katherine & Merry Lynne (Media Cannibals), Smallville
I think Busted is perfect for HCL, so I was a harder sell when the Smallville one came out. But looking on it with fresh eyes, I can see that Busted really works for Lex as well. That led to me thinking about the ways in which Joe Dick and Lex could be seen as similar, and what sorts of parallels they might have.
At that point, we ran out of time. I would have loved to see the Blake's 7 and Farscape versions of comedy tonight back to back; they have different versions of the same song (for B7, it's the old Zero Mostel version and for FS, it's the more modern Nathan Lane), and I wanted to see what had been done with them. My gut feeling is that they would be similar in an interesting fashion, as the shows were similar in interesting ways, and comparison/contrast is really one of my kinks.
I think that's it for my con reports. I'm really behind in working on my fiction, and I promised A that I would try to get a Pirates story done before the end of September.
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no subject
Date: 2003-08-25 09:04 am (UTC)I don't know what went down, or why and how the idea of "ownership" came about, or even when (and I've only been watching vids since the early 1990s, starting in anime fandom, and then spreading out to Cally Crew and other fannish vids) but from the POV of someone who isn't as deeply involved in the vidder culture--and is more of an audience member--it just seems foolish to me to feel hurt if another vidder uses the same song, particularly if it's in a completely diff. fandom and there is clearly no malicious intent. Especially if it is simply a case of two vidders hearing a song, and choosing it because each believes it fits that show and those characters, independently. I just always figured that each vid should be judged and appreciated on its own merits. And I had seen both the B7 "True Believer" and the pros "Don't Put it In Your Mouth" before Melissa and Amanda made their XF and DS vids. But I enjoyed all four vids regardless of familiarity with the song, and in fact, enjoyed comparing and contrasting them (even tho I'm not as familiar with Pros and B7 as I am XF and DS).
I guess the thing that weirds me is the idea that it's "common knowledge" not to use another vidder's song--that there is some kind of hard-and-fast code of behaviour that all vidders are expected to know and follow, particularly when vidders are scattered across the globe, usually working independently of one another, and not always attending the same cons, being on the same mailing lists, etc. It would be like expecting all authors across the globe to keep tabs on who is using what plot, and drop any story they might write which has a similar plot to another author's story. It just can't be done. And I'm not so sure it should be. I mean, were that the case, the only two Shakespeare plays we'd ever have would be "The Tempest" and "Taming of the Shrew" (okay, I may be blanking, but those are the only two that leap out at me that aren't based on an existing myth or history). Or because Picasso used the colour blue so well, no painter is allowed to dip their brush in the same colour, but must make do with the rest of the rainbow.
Look.
Date: 2003-08-25 09:25 am (UTC)If you read my post, you will understand that *I* don't want to re-use a song, knowingly, if I think I can find another one, probably a much more obscure song, that I can do something clever with (hopefully). If a vidder doesn't listen to enough music that she can't come up with a new song on her own, for her fandom, then I genuinely question whether she should be vidding at all. But in vidding, like in writing, there are people who aren't trying to challenge themselves all the time and do work as original as they can. Lots of people are just throwing stuff out and having a good time, and it's not Art. That's fine.
I also recognize that a lot of other people don't think it's uninteresting to use a song that someone else used, knowingly. My friends have done it -- and in one case, when a friend mentioned re-using an old song I had used, I said, "yeah, you know what, it works much better for your fandom. I totally see that." It IS a kind of generic song, but the gist did work better for her scene. She STILL had to deal with the fact that a lot of people see my vid when they hear the lyrics, but hey, that's her choice going in. I wouldn't have done it, but then I'm not as secure a vidder as she is.
It's my creative position, this is all I'm saying. I'm entitled to hold it, and I wish I were entitled to have people not reduce it to the lamest possible, most illogical terms. It's considerate to try to understand complexity in someone'e argument, even if you decide you don't agree with it.
I'm sorry, taraljc, this isn't just about your post -- it's about every damn debate in fandom, for me.
And I still wish I had been asked or told that my vid got compared to theirs yet again, without me being there to hear it.
Lynn
Re: Look.
Date: 2003-08-25 10:10 am (UTC)My apologies--I wasn't specifically referring to your post, and I'm sorry if I over-simplified something that obviously means a great deal to you. I was just responding to the thread at large (which, having missed the song choice panel, was my first exposure to the debate in question), and just trying to throw my 2¢ in... Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes.
Re: Look.
Date: 2003-08-25 10:34 am (UTC)In vidding it's even worse -- since so few of us actually agree on aesthetic judgments most of the time, it's about defending more than just an individual artistic position, but a whole take on the activity of vidding. I've recognized I'm a dinosaur destined to die on a beach sometime soon, though :-) I just hope it's tropical, and there's rum buried there.
Lynn
no subject
Date: 2003-08-25 09:53 am (UTC)I don't think so at all, and you know how I know? *g* The vidshows and panels were all voted on -- that's how they ended up in the schedule. With the exception of the Vidding 101 panel, which was included by the concom, all the programming was determined by internet voting.
I also really like seeing two vids to the same song. I wouldn't want a steady diet of that, mind you, but if the vids are strong enough (and I think all of those Zen chose were) I think it's something that a lot of people find interesting.
Which doesn't change how some people feel about it, of course -- vidding can be as emotional as any creative endeavor, and we can't always help how we feel. I don't really enjoy having something I created compared unfavorably to somebody else's work, but you have to keep each person's opinion in perspective, I think, and learn from what they say, if you think there's something valuable there to learn.
Anyway, no, I don't think you're in the minority.